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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 16 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1351<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
creature encounters<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Scriptwriting<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
Dandies (was RE: some thoughts about racing)<BR>
That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:42:17 EST<BR>
From: "Andrew Long" <andrewlong@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: creature encounters<BR>
<BR>
I want to mix a little of the 2300 creature system with the MT one, but do <BR>
not have access to my 2300 books (they're currently travelling from Sydney <BR>
to London, without me)<BR>
<BR>
Could some kind soul please post me (off-list) the details of the 2300 <BR>
creature generation system from the Director's guide?<BR>
<BR>
appreciate it, Andy<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Andy Long		Email:	andrewlong@hotmail.com<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:56:04 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
At 08:45 PM 1999 11 15 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>True. It's all to easy to have them told. "You must be thinking of some<BR>
>*other* planet. We've always had the toy company there..."<BR>
><BR>
>For the "ultimate" in paranoia, have them go to a system they've been<BR>
>to several (or better yet *many*) times before. And have the system be<BR>
>different. Different star, different orbit and UPP for the mainworld.<BR>
>To really rub it in, keep the name. And have all their library records<BR>
>etc match the *new* system.<BR>
><BR>
>For extra points, make the "missing" system their home base. With the<BR>
>"new" system having no records of them...<BR>
<BR>
Interesting idea, but how would you replace one system with another? <BR>
In my Supers game, the toy company building was a bit larger than the <BR>
old Omnitech HQ building, so that the old building would fit inside<BR>
the new one. The toy company building was, in fact, a shell that was<BR>
placed overtop the old building. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, I've thought of one way to pull it off, but it's a bit of<BR>
a stretch: change the star maps in the computer system of the PCs. If<BR>
they rely exclusively on the maps to find their way around, switching<BR>
the old system and new on the map just might throw them for a curve...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:00:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Alas, you are projecting a rather recent cultural phenomenon into a<BR>
>situation where it just plain *doesn't work*.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that I can agree with you here. While it is a rather recent<BR>
phenomenon, I think that there may be other factors involved as well. I<BR>
agree with you in spirit, though. It's not likely that there'll be a<BR>
Makhidkarunworld on Regina that will be a draw for folks from Glisten, for<BR>
example. That's not to say that there aren't other alternatives.<BR>
<BR>
>Tourism, of the sort you are thinking of is a creation of the railroad,<BR>
>the steamship, and most especially the *airplane*.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>You didn't get huge numbers of "average joe" tourists until<BR>
>transportation was cheap AND IT WAS POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE TRIP IN NO<BR>
>MORE THAN TWO WEEKS!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's assuming that a two week vacation is some sort of universal that will<BR>
be part of the status quo in the Traveller universe, despite the fact that<BR>
vacations for the working class - of *any* sort - are also relatively young.<BR>
Hell... come to think of it, the working class is pretty young as well.<BR>
<BR>
Before vacations were a given for Joe Average, it was much more common for<BR>
promoters to bring the attractions to his hometown. Incidentally, the<BR>
travelling carnival concept is *perfect* for Traveller. Canonically, jumps<BR>
are relatively expensive for individuals, but *ships* are cheap enough that<BR>
promoters could create travelling carnivals and road shows of all sorts.<BR>
<BR>
Stylistically, the idea also fits perfectly with the adventuring dynamic of<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
>That last is the killer in Traveller. That means that you *can't* go<BR>
>even *one* jump away for your vacation, because even with 2 weeks<BR>
>vacation, it'd use up your entire vacation just getting there and back!<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The only offworld tourists will be rich, retired, or at the very least,<BR>
>folks with enough seniority to get 4 week vacations. And even the<BR>
>latter aren't going to go more than a jump away.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Again, this requires that a two week vacation is some sort of universal. I<BR>
don't know that there's any really strong evidence for it.<BR>
<BR>
>For the vast majority, an offworld trip is a "once in a lifetime" deal.<BR>
>That puts the attractions in a whole different class. The stuff that<BR>
>currently attracts tourists isn't going to do it.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Glorified amusement parks, like Disney World, are going to be *local*.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Not necessarily the case, at least in my humble opinion. Places like Disney<BR>
World and Disneyland are frequently sub-standard with regards to variety and<BR>
quality of rides. In the U.S., places like the Six Flags amusement parks<BR>
literally smack the crap out of the Disney parks with respect to rides.<BR>
<BR>
It's not the *rides* that are the draw, they just happen to be (as GURPS<BR>
fans might say) a "special effect". What's the real draw is the marketing<BR>
machinery that portrays the Disney parks as a once in a lifetime experience<BR>
that can be enjoyed by anybody.<BR>
<BR>
>Besides, given the *vast* cultural differences between worlds,<BR>
>attracting folks from offworld isn't all that likely anyway.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I disagree, anything is possible with the right spin. Places like the Disney<BR>
parks are the draw that they are because of their universal lowest common<BR>
denominator appeal. Due to this appeal, the travel industry can lower prices<BR>
and / or package trips to the Disney parks... the lesser expense and / or<BR>
greater convenience strengthens the appeal, and so on. With the vast power<BR>
of the megacorporations in the Traveller universe, I would find it difficult<BR>
to believe that such facilities wouldn't exist, dotted across the subsectors<BR>
and sectors. They *would* draw off world tourism, and probably alot of it,<BR>
but it would still be "local" in a sense.<BR>
<BR>
I do think that it's quite possible to flatten the cultural distinctions<BR>
concerning entertainment. The lowest common denominator appeal of the<BR>
American entertainment industry is proof of that.<BR>
<BR>
Another interesting idea would be "Subsector (or Sector, or Domain) Fairs",<BR>
or Olympic style sporting events that are "fixed" in a specific location,<BR>
but only for a short time. The Subsector Fair is particularly applicable,<BR>
stylistically. The real World's Fair concept will be forever linked with<BR>
"the World of Tomorrow" style Golden Age sci-fi. Both ideas make excellent<BR>
adventure hooks... wow... my mind is swimming with the possibilities.<BR>
<BR>
Both the Fair and the Olympic models are methods by which the travel time<BR>
problem that Leonard mentioned were overcome in the real world. They serve<BR>
to foster a sense of unity, they are an excellent advertising opportunity,<BR>
and they're just damn interesting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:06:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Interesting idea, but how would you replace one system with another?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't know, but I do know that in a gritty X-Files-like scenario the<BR>
Scully analog wouldn't believe that the system had been replaced.<BR>
<BR>
Mulder: "Don't you see Scully? They've switched this system with another!"<BR>
<BR>
Scully: "Mulder, there's no evidence at all to support what you're saying.<BR>
I'm a woman of science, and science says such things aren't possible."<BR>
<BR>
Mulder: "But Scully, you were born here. Don't you find the fact that your<BR>
homeworld vanished to be odd? Hmmm... I wonder what the new world's Law<BR>
Level is with regard to pornography."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:15:55 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
>I just remembered a technique that I sort of stumbled onto. If your<BR>
>players are into reading SF or even just watching SF movies/tv,<BR>
>recommend things to them. Or even loan them some tapes or books. <BR>
<...><BR>
>So, while someone was messing with something that they thought might be<BR>
>a magic item. and made a "wish" type comment, I "intoned" the PHRASE.<BR>
>"As you wish, so be it.". And the player who'd read the book recently<BR>
>(and several others that I hadn't known had read it) just about had<BR>
>heart failure. :-)<BR>
<BR>
That's evil.... :-D<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes, all one needs to induce paranoia in the players is a previous<BR>
rep for that sort of thing. The last game I ran before my current GURPS<BR>
Traveller was the paranoid Supers campaign I had run last year, with <BR>
the same group of players.<BR>
<BR>
This past weekend, I had the group NPC break her ankle to get her<BR>
separated from the others, for no particular reason. The group leader told<BR>
her to call him when she was released from the hospital. A broken ankle<BR>
on a high-population, hi-tech world shouldn't take long at all. But with<BR>
all the other activities going on, I had forgotten completely about her,<BR>
until several hours had passed in game time. So when I had her call the<BR>
others, to explain what took so long I came up with an excuse that the<BR>
hospital had been overwhelmed with patients after a mag-lev train accident.<BR>
<BR>
Earlier in the scenario, the PCs had taken a mag-lev across the city, and<BR>
had also encountered a couple of members of a (rival) intelligence unit. So<BR>
when they heard about the train wreck, their response was to connect to <BR>
the local newsnet to get as much info about the accident, then try to<BR>
correlate the time and place of the wreck with their own movements to see<BR>
if there was a connection. All this from an off-the-cuff comment I made<BR>
on the spur of the moment to cover my own mistake.<BR>
<BR>
A way to use this in a game: have things happen in the background of <BR>
wherever the players are, to make them suspect that maybe someone *is*<BR>
out to get them. They take train from point A to point B on planet X;<BR>
later that day, there's a big train wreck on planet X. The PCs visit a<BR>
space station; after they leave, the station's reactor core goes critical<BR>
and blows up, taking half the station with it.... Keep doing this, and<BR>
it will have an effect on the players...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:22:56 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Scriptwriting<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
As Leonard reminded us:<BR>
>Alas, "Greatest American Hero" made an *unforgivable* mistake in the<BR>
>first episode of the second season. One that caused me and just about<BR>
>everyone I know to quit watching it.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Then at the start of the second season, the aliens give him another<BR>
>copy of the instructions WHICH HE PROMPTLY LOSES! That was it. He was<BR>
>too incompetent to live.<BR>
<BR>
I know, I know, that was a bad idea. It would have been a better idea to allow<BR>
him to have the book for one or two episodes, find out one or two nifty new<BR>
powers, save the world, and *then* lose the book.<BR>
<BR>
Losing the book allows the character to be more interesting - with the old 70's<BR>
all-powerful Superman, his hardest choice was "who to hit first?" More<BR>
underpowered characters actually have to *think*.<BR>
<BR>
The point was made later as an understatement, when the hero meets the<BR>
*original* human who was given the suit. It is the old "absolute power corrupts<BR>
absolutely". If he had full access to the suits powers and abilities, he could<BR>
well have lost sight of what they should be used for (character explanation) -<BR>
and could have overcome problems too easily to make for an interesting storyline<BR>
(story/game balance explanation).<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: dunno, maybe the nobility losing sight of the concept of "noblesse<BR>
oblige"? Or "ordinary" characters having to work out how to defeat a foe (or<BR>
solve a problem) that seems far beyond their meagre resources?  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:37:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
> >> >>I don't think canon addresses the issue, but I've<BR>
> >> >>always assumed that once you've joined the Imperium,<BR>
> >> >>you can't leave -- and once the Imperium decides it<BR>
> >> >>wants you, all you can do is cut the best deal you<BR>
> >> >>can.<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >> >How about states can join or leave the Imperium by majority vote of<BR>
> >> >citizens of the polity in question? That is, by a majority of the<BR>
> >> >citizens of the separate state to join, and by a majority of the<BR>
> >> >citizens of the *entire Imperium* to leave.<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >>Sorry, that's rediculous.  You can't hardly get 1100<BR>
> >>people to vote<BR>
> >>a majority on anything, let alone 11000 *worlds*.  It sounds like a good<BR>
> >>example of the Red Tape Monstrousity.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >It may be ridiculous, but that is what is required for an Australian<BR>
state<BR>
> >to secede from the commonwealth. Two thirds majority in the state is<BR>
> >required to pass, and two thirds of the states must agree.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Incidently in Western Australia the secession referendum was held three<BR>
> >times. It was passed the first time it came up in Western Australia, and<BR>
> >voted down on the two subsequent occurances.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >How was the original vote dealt with by the Commonwealth? It was ignored.<BR>
> >Antony Farrell<BR>
> ><BR>
> Didn't the same thing happen in Canada around 1946-1947? I think I recall<BR>
> that Newfoundland or Nova Scotia had a referendum on leaving Canada which<BR>
> was ignored.<BR>
><BR>
It was for Newfoundland to enter into Canada, which was a Yes (something<BR>
like 51% yes, 49% no)<BR>
<BR>
It has been suggested by the the lossing group that the vote was rigged and<BR>
that Canada pulled a fast one on Newfoundland (this I was told by me<BR>
brother-in-law, who happens to be a Newfie.<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:42:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >>I don't think canon addresses the issue, but I've<BR>
> >>always assumed that once you've joined the Imperium,<BR>
> >>you can't leave -- and once the Imperium decides it<BR>
> >>wants you, all you can do is cut the best deal you<BR>
> >>can.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >How about states can join or leave the Imperium by majority vote of<BR>
> >citizens of the polity in question? That is, by a majority of the<BR>
> >citizens of the separate state to join, and by a majority of the<BR>
> >citizens of the *entire Imperium* to leave.<BR>
><BR>
> <sarcasm mode><BR>
> "Majority vote? Wadaya thing we're runnin here? The Imperium aint no<BR>
democracy!"<BR>
> </sarcasm mode><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
To borrow from the Dicsworld book<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium is a Democracy with;<BR>
one man, one vote.<BR>
The Emperor is the man,<BR>
and he has the vote.<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:41:31 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Dandies (was RE: some thoughts about racing)<BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> asks:<BR>
<BR>
>Robert Eaglestone wrote:<BR>
>> For my Milieu E:21 setting, I sketched out some ideas for<BR>
>> a TL-9 race around a gas giant.  Contestants were rich<BR>
>> dandies who hand-built their ships according to contest<BR>
>> guidelines.<snip><BR>
><BR>
>Had First Contact with the Dandies happened by 21?  IIRC they are<BR>
>native to the Spinward Marches so FC must have been much later.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 Some reference buried deep in my memory says they were Contacted<BR>
about 300 years after that, at least by the Imperials. Contact with<BR>
the Zhodani or Vargr is possible well before the Imperials got there,<BR>
as is one-shot contact with lost Vilani following the Rule of Man...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:53:13 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
<BR>
Andy Long <andrewlong@hotmail.com> types:<BR>
<BR>
>I assumed that the pictures showed the incident that starts the adventure - <BR>
>the BATRON jumps into the systems and finds evidence of a recent space <BR>
>battle (ISTR). That would make the trader the ship that was the vitcim of<BR>
>the attack, and the dart-shaped ship is one of the squadron's Battle Riders <BR>
>(and the silhouettes in the book look like that, too....)<BR>
><BR>
>regards, Andy<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 The paragraph mentions a batron, but that the investigation of the wreck<BR>
takes place from a gunboat. I can live with a 400-ton displacement on the<BR>
pictured vessel...<BR>
 What iteration of Traveller do y'all want this thing in?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>From: GypsyComet@aol.com ON Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:07:01 EST<BR>
>><BR>
>>Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net> asks:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>4. The Spinward Marches Campaign<BR>
>>>Question: Does anyone know details and type of the ship<BR>
>>>on the front cover? It looks to big to be a Type S scout.<BR>
>>>I've decided that the other one is one of those 200 ton<BR>
>>>STL merchants from Hard Times.<BR>
>><BR>
>>There are some marvelous errors of perspective on that<BR>
>>cover, but based on the size of the airlock hatch and the<BR>
>>bridge deck on top, this is actually closer to 500-700 tons.<BR>
>>It carries the insignia of the Duke of Regina's Own Huscarles,<BR>
>>so it is either a Ducal starship (personal Yacht?) or one of<BR>
>>the SDBs maintained by the Duke's Own.<BR>
>><BR>
>>The little one on the back cover is 100-200 tons of tramp<BR>
>>freighter. NBD.<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:57:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One option could be how the media is covering those "survival" races that<BR>
> recently have become popular.  (I/d/i/o/t/s contestants doing things like<BR>
> running over the Atlas Mountains in teams.)  Since actual race takes days<BR>
> and is spread out over a vast area, they simply film the entire thing and<BR>
> edit it together into an interesting sports program.<BR>
<BR>
I can actually understand the draw of those races. I and some friends<BR>
were planning to *voluntarily* undego a 2 week wilderness survival<BR>
course for "fun". <BR>
<BR>
BTW, it occurs to me that writing up a few "survival race" courses from<BR>
the 3I might make a good "non-combat" scenario to get players used to<BR>
working as a team. There are some interesting possibilities if you pick<BR>
the right sort of planet.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:03:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Imperial and two Solomani. The results of these four expeditions have <BR>
> puzzled the experts. The inner surface of the ringworld has a surface <BR>
> area of 25.000 times that of Terra. It surrounds a star of class M1 V <BR>
> Star at a distance of less than 30 Million km, which would make it<BR>
>  inhabitable and even pleasant if it had a standard atmosphere.<BR>
>  However, the ringworld is nothing more than a narrow band (less than<BR>
>  100.000 km wide), without soil, atmosphere or any provisions to<BR>
>  sustain life. It has been speculated that the ringworld was<BR>
>  unfinished when the Final War started.<BR>
<BR>
Just a note, unless it has *active* "steering jets" of some sort, a<BR>
ringworld is *very* unstable. You see, if it gets the least bit off<BR>
center, the way the gravitational forces add up it gets pulled farther<BR>
off center. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:37:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Now they have on board video cameras, and satalight uplinks so the<BR>
> people interested get to see what is happening on the boats. The crews<BR>
> never get to see the opposition as they are always miles apart from<BR>
> each other.<BR>
><BR>
> This is how I had always envisioned space races. There are points in a<BR>
> system where the competitors have to pass, say a mile wide area of<BR>
> space next to a gas giant moon, to complete the race. The spectators<BR>
> watch at these points.<BR>
<BR>
For that matter, you can have things like the "Armstrong Classic" from<BR>
Philip St. John's "Rocket Jockey"[1]. The race was in the Sol system<BR>
(pre-FTL). The initial leg (a "qualifying run") was from Terra to Luna.<BR>
The ships that qualified had to land on Mercury, Venus(?) Mars,<BR>
Ganymede, Io, Callisto, Europa and Titan(?) and then return to Earth<BR>
(or was it Luna). One of the tricks was that they could land on the<BR>
other worlds in *any* order. They also had limited fuel supplies. They<BR>
were allowed to have fuel dumps of up to some amount at the port on<BR>
each world. Winner was the lowest total time.<BR>
<BR>
One of the nice touches of this setup is that since the relative<BR>
positions of the planets change from year to year, the race is never<BR>
the same. Also, if your ship has a bit more thrust or can get more<BR>
delta-V out of a full load of fuel, you can hit planets in an order<BR>
that takes less time than it would for the other ships. Heck, in the<BR>
case of the Jovian moons, a difference of *hours* will greatly affect<BR>
the positions!<BR>
<BR>
This can be run in the Sol system, as in the story, with or without<BR>
stops at major asteroids and outer planets. Or you can run it in<BR>
another system. <BR>
<BR>
I recommend keeping it to the inner system simply because it gets<BR>
impossible to keep track of things on a scale map without custom<BR>
computer software otherwise. <BR>
<BR>
[1]Philip St. John is one of Lester del Rey's pen names. This<BR>
particular book is somewhat famous because even though it was written<BR>
in the 50s, del Rey got a bit of future history right. The race  is the<BR>
Armstrong Classic. It's named after the first man to land on the moon! <BR>
Talk about weird co-incidences!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:25:40 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/15/99 7:21:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< From Starship Troopers, the book. >><BR>
<BR>
Bingo; this one was easy....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:07:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Speaking of ringworlds...<BR>
><BR>
> As I understand it, ringworlds that circle a star would be unstable<BR>
> and wouldn't last.  Is that right?<BR>
<BR>
Yep.<BR>
<BR>
> How about a ringworld that doesn't circle a star?  Or more<BR>
> accurately, a huge ring space station.<BR>
><BR>
> Let's say we have a huge ring station (or mini-ringworld) that is<BR>
> 500,000 km in diameter and 20,000 km high rotating perpendicular to<BR>
> it's orbit around a star.  The inner and outer rims of the tube<BR>
> making up the interior of the ring are 100 km apart.  Inside this<BR>
> tube you would have room for mountains, seas, and continents.<BR>
> Several worlds worth as (3.1x10^10 km) is close to 60 earths.<BR>
><BR>
> Inside the tube habitable conditions could be maintained.  The<BR>
> atmosphere would be retained inside the tube by the walls and<BR>
> circulated by heat.  Light and heat could be transmitted from the<BR>
> side wall (facing the sun) to the "roof" and reflected down.  Move<BR>
> the mirrors with solar powered moters, and you can simulate sun (and<BR>
> moon if you want) travelling across the sky. giving your days,<BR>
> seasons and years.  Radiators on the dark side keep the system in<BR>
> heat equilibrum.  <BR>
><BR>
> The dynamics of continent building is obviously a problem if the<BR>
> system is meant to be self-maintaining.  I know it's verboten in<BR>
> Traveller, but I envision nano-technology taking care of that.  How<BR>
> I don't know. <g> <BR>
><BR>
> IAC, something like this would be entirely "beyond known levels of<BR>
> technology", but might be more doable (and survivable) for<BR>
> "mysterious pre-cursor" races than true ringworlds.<BR>
><BR>
> Am I totally off the beam with this idea?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. They are called "<something> Orbitals". I just can't recall the<BR>
name that should be in place of <something>. One of the many, *many*<BR>
"Larger than Worlds" constructs that both SF writers and far out<BR>
physics types have speculated about. <BR>
<BR>
A rather interesting variation is to have a large hollow tube. Rotate<BR>
it to provide 1g on the inner surface. Place a light source running<BR>
down the center. Make it long enough and you can bend it into a closed<BR>
loop without measurable torsion effects. You could loop it around a<BR>
star many, many times instead of having a single loop. Of course, it<BR>
won't be any more stable than a ringworld if you do that. On the other<BR>
hand, maybe you can flex it in such a way as to maintain stability? Not<BR>
something that anyone has studied as far as I know.<BR>
<BR>
If a civilization does this and runs it around the star a few thousand<BR>
(or million) times, it starts to look like the star is sitting in a<BR>
tangle of hair. If you've got the materials, you can build the tube on<BR>
out to another star, and bury it in more loops. The power from the<BR>
loops near the stars can power the sections far away from them. At 30km<BR>
a day, you can walk a parsec in about a trillion years. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:23:08 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
Several interesting non-lethal solutions have been put forward... but our<BR>
resident medico has failed to mention at least one obvious one:<BR>
<BR>
subsonics. They are directional, nausea inducing (they disturb a variety of<BR>
systems, including the vestibular and digestive), and can safely be used<BR>
with CS or other flamables, as they do not induce that much heating.<BR>
<BR>
Another possibility, at least in the traveller universe:<BR>
Psionicological field inhibitors. IF psionic potential is a universal<BR>
amongst humanity, droyne, aslan and vargr (as might be inferred by CGen),<BR>
even if useful potential is not, disruption of the psionic systems might<BR>
have some massive effects, or maybe just disorienting effects.<BR>
<BR>
I do know that certain forms of RF have severe brain-disturbing<BR>
tendancies... whether that is cooking of brain cells or not, I don't know.<BR>
(But NEVER stand near the antenna of a CB'er with a 3KW linera booster when<BR>
he keys up....)<BR>
<BR>
Another idea: Use a damper field to increase decay in the area of a group<BR>
of rioters. Human biosystems have many chemicals with radioactive<BR>
components (including Iodine and calcium)... by inducing radioactive decay<BR>
inthe few radioactives in the system you can get some strange result<BR>
chemicals... Or at least get some really high neutron decay. Social<BR>
Darwinism in Action: Riot, and We'll make YOU glow. The disintegrators of<BR>
TL 17-22 are basically enhanced dampers, if I read the descriptions<BR>
right....<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:45:43 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I <BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:13:07 PST<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> It strikes me that there is very little that would attract tourists<BR>
>> to the Marches.  There's the museum at Regina, but that is solitary<BR>
>> entertainment and it's appeal could hardly be described as being<BR>
>> "fun".  Apart from that, there is nothing that I would consider a<BR>
>> "draw" for tourists.<BR>
><BR>
>Alas, you are projecting a rather recent cultural phenomenon into a<BR>
>situation where it just plain *doesn't work*.<BR>
><BR>
>Tourism, of the sort you are thinking of is a creation of the railroad,<BR>
>the steamship, and most especially the *airplane*.<BR>
<BR>
<cheap shot><BR>
 I'll be more careful what I'm thinking of now I know you're Zhodani.<BR>
</cheap shot><BR>
<BR>
I was only using my present day vacation to lead in to the topic and<BR>
did not mean to imply that there were any parallels between that and<BR>
tourism in Traveller. I too think that tourism works very differently<BR>
in the Imperium. But just because it doesn't work the same way doesn't<BR>
mean that it can't work at all.<BR>
<BR>
>You didn't get huge numbers of "average joe" tourists until<BR>
>transportation was cheap AND IT WAS POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE TRIP IN NO<BR>
>MORE THAN TWO WEEKS!<BR>
<BR>
I agree with you that 2 week vacations won't work that way in Traveller.<BR>
That doesn't mean that tourism *doesn't work*. Just that the same kind of<BR>
vacation we're familiar with here will not lead to space tourism in the<BR>
Traveller Universe.<BR>
<BR>
However, tourism DOES happen. It's what luxury liners are built for.<BR>
It's what safari ships are built for. It's what at least one of the<BR>
megacorporations specialise in. It's in canon. There are published<BR>
scenarios that have tourists and entertainers aboard cruise ships.<BR>
The luxury liners aren't just there for business travellers or those<BR>
who are migrating. They take tourists around the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, when you think about it, aren't all Travellers tourists?<BR>
<BR>
>That last is the killer in Traveller. That means that you *can't* go<BR>
>even *one* jump away for your vacation, because even with 2 weeks<BR>
>vacation, it'd use up your entire vacation just getting there and back!<BR>
<BR>
Only if your vacation is for 2 weeks. In my country 4 week vacations are<BR>
the norm (we have it good). That would give sophonts time for 2 weeks stay<BR>
at their destination as well as 2 weeks in jump. It makes it possible.<BR>
But only if there is something worth the time and expense one jump away.<BR>
<BR>
Space travel, while affordable to the masses, is still expensive. To my<BR>
mind most sophonts would not holiday outsystem unless there was<BR>
a real 'draw' to attract them. It certainly would not be a yearly event.<BR>
Most "average joe" would find something closer to home to look at instead.<BR>
<BR>
>The only offworld tourists will be rich, retired, or at the very least,<BR>
>folks with enough seniority to get 4 week vacations. And even the<BR>
>latter aren't going to go more than a jump away.<BR>
<BR>
That's the kind of folks I see as 'tourists of the Imperium' too. Don't<BR>
forget the nobles. And with the volume of sophonts in the Imperium even<BR>
a minute percentage of tourists is a huge amount. Even if they only<BR>
travelled once in their lives.<BR>
<BR>
>For the vast majority, an offworld trip is a "once in a lifetime" deal.<BR>
>That puts the attractions in a whole different class. The stuff that<BR>
>currently attracts tourists isn't going to do it.<BR>
<BR>
Bingo! My point exactly. So, since we know it does happen, what are<BR>
they going to look at in all those luxury liners, yachts & safari ships?<BR>
What do people go to see that they can't get locally?<BR>
<BR>
A thought. Perhaps it's not so much the destination - but the trip.<BR>
The sightseeing might not be as important as the experience of getting<BR>
there. You can't experience jumpspace except in jump. You can't just<BR>
look up at the stars, you can BE there. That feeling might be what<BR>
draws people to travel.<BR>
<BR>
Any more ideas?<BR>
<BR>
Graeme Batho<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1351<BR>
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